"In" the glove vs touching the glove - Any difference?

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Permalink Reply by Larry Cicchiello on June 28, 2011 at 12:23am

Good one Kyle. I have him "out" if he's holding onto the ball in his bare hand and it's touching the glove. I'll have to go to a better authority in the morning. Good one and I'm pretty much guessing. Will get to the bottom of this one.

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Permalink Reply by bob oleary on June 28, 2011 at 2:17am

Great ? Coach.

I have him out .

The ball is in contact with the mitt. While the catcher is making the play "tag " .

Several angles in slow mo show the ball in contact with the mitt. Believe me, If O'Sullivan thought he had a beef he'd be out there in a flash. It's funny Fla. wins the final game Friday against Virgina on the same type of play.

The call I'm still trying to figure was in the 5th inning, 1 out and the the Fla batter goes down swinging

1)O'Sullivan the Fla. Skip comes out and wants the plate ump to ask for help .

2) the plate umpire says. If the ball hit the ground, they " his partners " would have come to me already " I've only got one sound, going into the glove ".

3) the conference with his partners. Plate ump says you guys would of come to me on a foul ball, did any one see the ball hit the dirt????

4) third base ump says did you have a foul tip. Plate Ump says YEH. After telling the skip from Fla " he heard one sound the ball going into the glove ".

5) then the third base ump says yeh the ball hit the ground and proceeds to put the batter up again.

There are mechanics for those circumstances that were not followed

I'm sure Perry Lee could elaborate on this play if she so desires . I am just glad that it didn't have an out come on the game. Other than the pitcher having to throw more and giving a second chance to the batter . The super slo mo from the front angle shows the ball hitting the glove first and the glove causing the dirt to kick up . On the side view it's inconclusive.

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Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on June 28, 2011 at 3:07am

Out

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Permalink Reply by Larry Cicchiello on June 28, 2011 at 7:59am

He's OUT! I checked with an umpire who does preseason MLB games in Florida and he says HE'S OUT, as long as the ball is touching the glove and it does NOT have to be IN the glove.

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Permalink Reply by Kyle Grucci on June 28, 2011 at 9:24am

Thanks, guys.  I'd seen tags made before where the ball was held in the throwing hand, with the hand and ball "inside the glove".  I just wasn't sure if there was a distinction between that and the ball just touching the outside of the glove.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

Here's what the rules say... "A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove."

 

It doesn't really make a distinction about inside/outside the glove when tagging with the glove.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Laverty on June 28, 2011 at 8:26am

Yeah, if the ball was required to be "in" the glove, think of any time a player attempted a two-handed tag.  It'd be nearly impossible for the umpire to determine if the ball was in the glove and an open hand was supporting it or if the fingers were wrapped around it or actually holding it.  

The ones I think are funny are when  the catcher is holding the ball in his hand, outside the glove and gets away with a glove tag for an out.

 

Remember my post about what characteristics are important for an umpire to have?  #1 was integrity?  I just shake my head at Bob's post below where the umpire was both wrong in his decision and a liar.  Missing a call is acceptable.  Lying about it is not:

2) the plate umpire says. If the ball hit the ground, they " his partners " would have come to me already " I've only got one sound, going into the glove ".

...

4) third base ump says did you have a foul tip. Plate Ump says YEH. After telling the skip from Fla " he heard one sound the ball going into the glove ".

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The way Bob describes it, it sounds like the 3rd base ump takes the heat for the home plate umpire.  I sure hope that 3B umpire put in a phone call as makes sure he never has to work with that home plate umpire again.  That home plate umpire should never be allowed to work Omaha again if he's going to blatantly lie to a manager's face to cover up for a mistake.  That's one of the biggest frustrations with umpires, it's more important to look good than get it right.  Even the MLB umpires now believe it's more important to get calls correct than to always appear correct, as they now discuss in their group and even go to video.

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Permalink Reply by bob oleary on June 28, 2011 at 11:11am

Did you get to watch the game last night. Remember the situation In the 5th .If you have it on tape. It's a great learning tool for umps in the classroom and during field mechanics. I'm sure the supervisor was in there locker room after the game last night going over that play. When they have that situation there are signals, quiet and loud that they use so there won't be any arguments out there .

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Permalink Reply by Mark Cassler on June 28, 2011 at 10:27am

Kyle

I saw the play and the runner was out. The fact that it was a two handed tag and the ball was in the non glove hand makes no difference especially when the ball is touching the glove. Two handed tags with the hands together should always be called outs as long as the defensive play is in control of the ball.

Mark Cassler

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Permalink Reply by Kyle Grucci on June 28, 2011 at 10:45am

That makes sense. Thanks!

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