Over running 1st base

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by HENRY MUNEVAR on September 30, 2012 at 8:47pm

http://WWW.HENRYSBASEBALLCLUB.COM  781 891 0621 FROM WHAT U SAID HE IS OUT. ALSO IN COACHING WE TELL PLAYER'S TO TURN TO THE RIGHT AFTER THEY CROSS THE BAG AT FIRST. ANY MOVE OTHER THAN THAT IS CONSIDERED MAKING A MOVE FOR SECOND AND I WOULD TAG HIM OUT!!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Paes on September 30, 2012 at 8:52pm

7.08(j)  Runner is out when he "attempts to run to second" and is tagged.  The way I have heard it explained is that he has to make a motion or attempt toward second.  However, I would put this in the umpire forum, and you would get a better answer, I am sure.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amy Newtson on September 30, 2012 at 9:21pm

You are right. The umpire is wrong. I, in fact, teach all of my runners to turn left, in case there is an overthrow. I have taught it that way for 20 years.

That you have to turn right is one of those 20 myths of baseball.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Todd VanDerwerken on September 30, 2012 at 10:07pm

I teach our team to overrun first by 5 or 6 feet, breakdown into a good athletic position; and LOOK to the right with their head only and look for the overthrow.  Never to have we taught turning to the left first to avoid situations like this.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anthony Turchetti on September 30, 2012 at 11:54pm

As long as you don't make any attempt or sudden move to advance to 2nd you can run left.  The minute you angle, jolt, twitch, lol, or anything that suggest you were thinking about 2nd you'll be tagged out.  You can overrun first stop and simply turn around left to go back to the bag absolutely. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on October 1, 2012 at 12:53am

He didn't over run 1st base, he ran through 1st base. Without seeing it, there really isn't any way of calling it unless he ran through the base and turned right. It doesn't take a sudden move towards 2nd, it takes a move that the umpire deems a move towards 2nd. From what you are describing, tough call.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ray Kovach on October 1, 2012 at 1:30am

Would have to see the play to get the "feel" of what the runner's intent was. Just veering or turning alone does not determine his intent. Baseline is irrelevant to the question of returning to first. It is strictly a judgement call - but based on your description it sounds like the umpire used the baseline to establish intent - but I would not use that as criteria for judging intent. It is feel. Did I THINK he was making a legitimate effort to advance to second base? Period.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on October 1, 2012 at 7:13am

The umpire in this situation is unfortunately like most umpires.  They are frustrated athletes that were always the last guys picked by the kickball captains in the third grade.  They always try to insert themselves into the game by making unnecessary calls.  Then they try to rationalize the call.  In this case he is citing the "left the basepath" rule which is only to be called in the event that the runner is trying to avoid a tag.  I do not need to see this play to determine if the runner made an attempt to go to second.  Simple logic says that he would not have made a move to second on an infield hit that was not over thrown.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by andre lachance on October 1, 2012 at 8:29am

Rule 7.08(c) -- is that the batter-runner "returns immediately to the base." Any attempt of the batter-runner to advance to second is considered not returning immediately, thereby putting the runner in jeopardy of being tagged out. This usually happens when the runner, thinking the ball has been overthrown far enough that he can make it to second, takes a quick step or jerk toward second, thereby forfeiting his right to return to first base safely. Such a runner can be tagged out.

There is still a judgment in the rule: "putting the runner in jeopardy". Seems to me that common sense should prevail: if there is no overthrow, everyone knows the runner isn't going to go, even if s/he happens to make a slight gesture towards 2b. (unless they are being coached by some of those crazy coaches in the young leagues who just send runners all over the place, looking for overthrows = not baseball). Great question. Worth talking with the umpires before the game, especially if you coach like Amy does (below) to make sure they are in agreement with the strategy.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amy Newtson on October 1, 2012 at 10:19am

I should add this. I coach almost entirely softball, any more, now that my boys are grown. In softball, there is this rule.

Rule 8 section 7 3e: a batter that over runs first base and turns right is commited to first base and must return non stop to first base.


Turning right completely takes away any chance to advance.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Paes on October 1, 2012 at 1:29pm

Unless this happens more than once, I don't think this needs to be covered when going over the ground rules.  However, when you see that umpire, I would speak with him/her politely, and inquire.

This happened to me last fall, when an umpire made an incorrect book call (he ruled that a runner could not tag up on a fly ball until the fielder had full possession of the ball - called out my runner who made a good tag and and scored).  I saw him before a game, and politely told him I had double-checked the rule, and that he had made the wrong call.  He told me he had doublechecked after the game, and apologized to me for making an error.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on October 1, 2012 at 1:41pm

I don't think he "double checked" the rule.  If he checked at all, it was the first time he ever read the rules.  That one is so basic that it comes under "common knowledge".  If he did not know that one, what else is he clueless about.  Umpires are never held accountable for their errors.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page