Pitching in bunting situation

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Permalink Reply by andre lachance on February 15, 2010 at 3:19pm

I agree, but I've also seen pop-ups happen because a young hitter drops the head as the ball drops down, thus inducing a pop-up - often to the catcher. If the pitcher has a good feel for the curve during this part of the game, I might start first pitch with it (thinking they won't bunt on first pitch) and get the strike while also watching to see if the bat head drops when he's pulling back or if his knees bend. Then maybe high fastball inside...but I wouldn't rush high fastball on first pitch because it becomes a hitter's count. Noticing tendency of opposing coach - does he always steal on first pitch/bunt on first pitch? I love reading tendencies and stealing signs...great conversation.

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Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on February 15, 2010 at 6:23pm

Andre, when I say up and in I mean it to be an up and in strike. Also, the way I was taught to bunt was to bunt with your knees and not with your hands. Extend the arms out in the upper portion of the zone getting good plate coverage and then if the ball is lower than your hands simply bend your knees. If it's higher than your hands then take the pitch. I worked pretty hard at it for my entire career and I can tell you it worked great. I never did make an out sacrifice bunting. (Strike out). Like anything else, it takes work and players take it for granted and this is why you see lots of pitchers walking back to the dugout from the plate. Position players really need to work on it more. Most players take their normal 2 quick bunts every BP and move on to swinging, and then the day comes where they need to get one down and look silly. I'm teaching my 9 year old now and he's catching on quick.

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Permalink Reply by Dion Chamar Owens on February 15, 2010 at 3:51pm

The slow curve. And it's because it's the kind of pitch that if bunted it will drop directly in front of the catcher only to allow him to throw the runner out.

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Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on February 15, 2010 at 6:17pm

Dion, I gotta believe you're being sarcastic.

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCrite on February 16, 2010 at 11:36am

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!! This is exactly what I had hoped from being a part of Checkswing.com. I appreciate that you have not only given an answer, but also the reasoning behind it.

I think we all can agree that our players will normally do what they are asked; but they really want to know why.

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Permalink Reply by Pat Ahearne on February 16, 2010 at 5:49pm

The toughest pitch to bunt? If you are playing a team that is fundamentally sound, there isn't a good answer to that. If it's a strike, they will get it down, if it's not, then it's ball 1.

Teams that are not fundamentally sound, won't be bunting anyway because they will be too far behind for it to be good strategy.

To the second point, instructing catchers and pitchers what to throw in a bunt situation, here's my take:

Throw a strike, take the out, and get the next guy. If a team is giving you an out, say thank you and take it. They only get 27. It's also a confidence issue. If you are confident as a pitcher, a coach, and a team that you can get out of the jam or come back if they score, then by all means throw a strike and take the out.

Also, let's look at worst possible scenario. You are in the last at bat, game is tied and there is a lead off double. Most likely you are walking the next batter. Nobody out and first and second and the bunt is on. If you have a designed play for a pick off, run that to take a step from the man at second. Next, if you are going after him at third, it's the wheel play with corners charging and pitcher charging with the goal to get the force at third. In that case, you want a strike and the bunt down as all your infielders are on top of it and you have a chance to get the force at third. If you try to alter your pitcher's game plan especially to something he's not accustomed to throwing in the most pressure situation, you'll get ball 1, ball 2, etc.

Here's my mindset as a pitcher for that scenario. If I'm pitching in that spot, with the game on the line, I'm there because I'm the best on the team for that spot. Even if I'm not, that's my mindset. If I give up a double, and intentionally walk the next batter, I have enough confidence to throw a strike, take the out, and take my chances 2nd & 3rd, 1 out. Next comes most likely another I-walk, and you are one pitch away from getting out of it with a double play. At that point, depending on the pitcher-hitter matchup in that spot, you can go for a double play or a strikeout.

The short answer: Thinking anything but "throw a strike and take the out" is too gimmicky and risky. Let the outcome be decided by who executes after a bunt - is the pitcher going to make the pitches that get out of the jam or is the batter going to be able to drive in the run.

I call anything other than "throw a strike and take the out" gimmicky because at higher levels, chances are the bunt will be executed anyway. Also, I would prefer to take my chances on my team getting out of the jam after the bunt was executed versus risking taking my pitcher out of his game and asking him to throw a pitch he's not comfortable with on the chance it prevents the bunt.

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Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on February 16, 2010 at 11:14pm

Pat,

there are a bunch of different philosophies on this and the only real way most managers do it in todays game is with the %'s. They know what hitters are coming up and what pitchers they have available and they know exactly what the % is between each pitcher and each possible hitter. My problem with your scenario of walking the hitters is that you now are putting it on the pitcher to throw not so perfect pitches but more over the plate because he can't walk anyone. And from experience, I can tell you that the majority of pitchers would rather play with or pitch around a hitter than to walk him intentionally. I know I would. What comes with all of this is knowing your hitters. I've been in many situations just like this and I have told me manager not to walk the guy because I knew for a fact that the hitter that you would walk intentionally always took a strike late in the game with runners on. Low and behold he did and I had him down 0-1. Now I have a chance to throw a couple of pitches and maybe see if he'll chase. Or, maybe this guy is terrible with sliders if you start it on the outside corner and break away. Now he's down 0-2 and the balls in my court. Or on the other hand they might decide to bunt the guy from 2nd to 3rd and in this case I always did one of 2 things, throw it with a little movement and hopefully he won't put it in play on the 1st pitch but he'll be down 0-1, OR, I'd intentionally throw a purpose pitch out of the zone to make sure I knew they were bunting and not slapping. Bottom line is you have to know your opponent and what his strengths and weaknesses are. If you don't you will most likely not know what to do in these crucial situations.

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCrite on February 17, 2010 at 11:23am

Kip,

If I read this correctly, you get to a point that is trying to be made with the difference in philosophy with coaches. The levels of play were you play teams 18 times and players stats are available to research and tendencies can be found, your homework gives you guidance on what to do in the situation.

Let's take the high school level where we play 16 league games and you only play the other teams maybe twice in a season. The hitters may have played last year, and as a coach you can remember (because we catchers just seem to hold on to that stuff) what the hitter does. You then will have a chance of "playing" with him. Unfortunately, most of the players you will have no clue what they will normally do or maybe they are completely guided by the coach, so you need to know the coach well.

Again, I posted this question because I wanted to see what thought process is used and how to train the players about the chess game of baseball. It is very interesting to see how pitchers can approach this different that hitters and so on.

A little tongue in cheek comment - in the high school game, the out is not guaranteed.....

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Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on February 17, 2010 at 12:11pm

Michael,

what you say is true but remember the hitter hasn't seen the pitcher either in the scenario that you provide.

Just remember, the more you know about someones tendencies the better chance you will have of getting them out.

Stances can tell you a lot about what a hitter is about to do as well as what grip he has. Where in the box he starts or where his eyes are looking before the at bat. Is he opening up his shoulder a little more than usual. All of this can be seen from the bench and the bullpen and this is why I like the players to pay attention to what is going on during the game and not always talk about Xbox or whatever. So much information can be obtained during a game that can be used later in a game as well.

Thanks

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Solberger on March 6, 2010 at 5:39pm

Here's a better question. Why can't pitchers throw strikes when a guy squares? It is one of my biggest pet peeves as a coach is to watch a guy square around then 4 pitches later walk to first

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCrite on March 6, 2010 at 8:47pm

That is one of the main things that I was also peeved about..... I think that the pitchers at High School and below are afraid to hit the batter that squares early.

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