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Hitting Coaches and Instructors

A group for all Hitting Coaches and Instructors. Join here and the group badge will be displayed on your profile page.

Members: 340
Latest Activity: 10 hours ago

Discussion Forum

Virtual Baseball Simulators...

Started by Jose M Hernandez. Last reply by Jalal Leach Feb 10. 2 Replies

Virtual baseball simulator. Good? Not Good? Anybody has any experience and thoughts on how good, or not good, this is or can be? Thanks in advance for your input.Continue

Tags: basball, Virtual

Does This Make Sense?

Started by Bill Stanton. Last reply by Rod Haney Jul 11, 2014. 10 Replies

I saw this article where Dale Sveum, Royals Hitting Coach discusses the struggle that…Continue

Tags: coach, batting, hitting, instruction, opposite

What is a "PURE HITTER?"

Started by Bill Stanton. Last reply by Michael Richards Jun 25, 2014. 7 Replies

I am reading this article on ESPN, "Who are MLB's best pure hitters?" and it made me think.  I think…Continue

Tags: Magadan, Dave, Gary, Hughes, philosophy

Attention All Hitting Coaches: What mindset do you teach your hitters?

Started by Dave Holt. Last reply by Phil Schnorr Jun 19, 2014. 22 Replies

Calling all hitting coaches: What kind of mindset do you teach your hitters? Do you want them to think aggressively and…Continue

Tags: approach, positive, devloping, batting, tips

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Comment by Richard Lovell 10 hours ago

Rod and Dave:

Dave - great explanation. You hit it ourt of the park!

Rod - my understanding of your question was this and I cut and pasted: Do we agree that the optimum transfer of power won't transpire if the
'' ball is traveling faster than the barrel of the bat at the moment of bat to
ball contact ??? My answer was - No. transfer of power can be made with a slower bat speed to a faster ball speed. See Dave's and my reference to the kinetic link-D: toes to fingers I believe and Me: Feet to Hands; feet, knees, hips, core, chest/back, shoulders, arms, hands, bat.

Either my Dyslexia was kicking in or my ADHD is in overdrive. I understood the question to mean that if the ball were traveling faster than the barrel, optimal force could not be attained and I disagreed. In my opinion and according to StatCast and by watching baseball and seeing bat speed measurements against pitch velocity, the barrel does not have to be traveling faster than the ball to produce optimal results. A bat speed go 85mph against a pitch velocity of 92 can produce an optimal result of a home run with an exit velocity of "xyz" with the correct launch angle.

The physics behind it is Newton's Three Laws of Motion:

Newton's First Law of Motion:

Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

This we recognize as essentially Galileo's concept of inertia and this is often termed simply the "Law of Inertia".

Comment by Richard Lovell 10 hours ago

Newton's Second Law of Motion:

The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

This is the most powerful of Newton's three Laws, because it allows quantitative calculations of dynamics: how do velocities change when forces are applied? Notice the fundamental difference between Newton's 2nd Law and the dynamics of Aristotle: according to Newton, a force causes only a change in velocity (an acceleration) {bat to ball}; it does not maintain the velocity as Aristotle held. 

This is sometimes summarized by saying that under Newton, F = ma, but under Aristotle F = mv, where v is the velocity. Thus, according to Aristotle there is only a velocity if there is a force, but according to Newton an object with a certain velocity maintains that velocity unless a force acts on it to cause an acceleration (that is, a change in the velocity)-in revers as when a bat makes "optimal" contact with a ball thrown at a higher velocity than the speed of the bat. Aristotle's view seems to be more in accord with common sense, but that is because of a failure to appreciate the role played by frictional forces-air, contact with a moving object in  the opposite direction-the bat. Once account is taken of all forces acting in a given situation it is the dynamics of Galileo and Newton, not of Aristotle, that are found to be in accord with the observations. Thus, falling in line with our conversation about optimal force.

Newton's Third Law of Motion:

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Whether it is off a tee, front toss at slow speeds, or a pitch from a MLB pitcher, this Law holds true and is also quantified by the F=ma, as discussed regarding bat deflection. There must be sufficient mass behind the force in order to impact optimal force to the ball. For example, a player with a bat speed of 50mph hits a ball pitched at 40mph, can still have bat deflection with a bat that is too light. Conversely, a player with a swing speed of 40mph against a pitch at 50mph will produce optimal power through the ball with minimal, or zero bat deflection.

As far as getting paid? I think you were making a fun joke, but for this I do not. Maybe I should contact Bill or someone and ask....ha, just kidding.

Back to Dave's comments-I think he really got to the point of your question, explained himself very eloquently and added some great commentary. His reference to the "kinetic link" is spot on. If you start your swing from the core, or shoulders, or hands, it is like starting to make an omelette by cooking the cheese first without breaking some eggs. 

Comment by Dave Vaccaro 18 hours ago
Hi Rod...

To chime in, I'm sure you would agree that there is a difference between the phrases, "optimal amount of force" opposed to "more force than what's behind the pitch." In my opinion, "optimal force" is the the key. Some players can distribute their energy in the most optimal manner and still not match the force behind the baseball. So my answer tends to lean toward, "Yes, an optimal amount of force can be applied under those circumstances." However...the term "optimal" can be very subjective. What are the results you are looking for from the swing?

If energy is distributed properly, "kinetically from the toes to the hands with all components working toward/ then through the baseball (not circular and around the ball) then with a strong hand position at contact, optimal results can be achieved; even if the speed of the ball outweighs the speed of the bat.

One component that allows this to be true is "leverage" at contact" Just look at players who jump into a live BP session and take 3/4 effort swings during the first round. The ball still jumps off their bat due to proper kinetic energy distribution and good leverage at contact as well as through the baseball.

However...the key question is what results are you looking for after contact to be able to deem it "optimal"?
Comment by Rod Haney 19 hours ago

    Rich,  

        If you're not getting paid........you should be.       

       (Remember I am talking about the training of young players.

       9 to 14 years old.)

       My question was.......''Can an optimum % of the bat swing

       power,.... a players' bat swing produces,.. be transferred to the ball

       if the ball is traveling faster than the barrel of the bat,at the moment 

       of contact?

           You said no... and than explained what other reasons can cause

            the bat to deflect.

           So.....What allows the bat to transfer optimum swing power to

            the ball when the ball is traveling faster than the bat ?

           What physics explanation (or other) will allow me to understand

           how this is possible ?

            It is my understanding that mass in this conversation is area and 

            density...........not necessarily weight.

            I totally agree with the need for the bat to travel on the same plane

            as the ball if that's what ''launch angle'' means.

            Again I thank you.

       Rod

Comment by BRANDON BULL 20 hours ago

Thanks again.  As you can see in the video his front foot is about 45 degrees that is closed as opposed to 90 degrees as a result of him pulling out with his front hip.  So rather than snap the hips as I refer to it, he was starting his swing by pulling that front hip out or as I tell him leaking his front side.  As a result the hands drop and now he has to pull even more with the front side to drag the bat through the zone so now his shoulders fly head goes and its just all bad.  So he has worked through that and his swing is much better.  He swings a BBCOR -3 with ease 27 oz because he now as a very efficient swing.  Like I said I will post an update soon.  I prefer game swings because its easy to have a good swing in practice.  He has a big tournament this weekend.  Thanks for your time.

Comment by Richard Lovell 20 hours ago

Brandon,

If I could offer some of my definitions here: Bat Drag: when the back elbow leads knob of the bat form Launch to Approach.

I don't necessarily agree with keeping the front foot closed to drive the backside. The front foot opens to approximately 45 degrees, more or less, which allows the bak hip to come though better...in my and other opinions. The opening up you refer to is usually a result of the back elbow being driven down, which causes the front shoulder to raise up too soon and fast. The arm barring does have some effect on bat drag, but it also causes a long swing. If he can focus on two things for now, it should help get rid of his bat drag and long swing. Focus on keeping the back elbow back and front shoulder tilted down when his front heel plants/lans on the ground and having his hands turn with his shoulders and keeping the elbows at the same distance apart. To get rid of the Arm barring his front arm, have him focus on keeping the 90 degree angle he has in his front elbow when he is in his stance until after his shoulders turn through from Launch to Approach. This will help create bat lag. Lastly, I know this is more than two, after he is comfortable with those first two, have him begin to focus on extending his top hand through the path of the pitch into his Power-V.

Congrats to your son for his hard work and having you as a dad.  Keep having fun...that is what it really all about.

Comment by BRANDON BULL 21 hours ago

Richard,

Thanks for the input.  Always a work in progress and we were focusing on him keeping the front foot closed and driving the backside more.  When he was loading he was flying his front side and really creating some serious bat drag.  Here his bat drag is caused more from him arm barring which we are working on still.  He doesn't have a hitting coach - just me and we do use coach's eye. Most of his issues are neck up and not relaxing and having confidence in himself.  But otherwise he works very hard and has a great attitude so no doubt he will work it out someday.  We aren't worried about making him the best 9 year old in the world more just about keeping him excited to play the game and keep him on track to being able to build on a fundamental foundation as he grows.

Comment by Richard Lovell 21 hours ago

Brandon,

One thing I have noticed about your sons swing now to a year ago is the lack of any weight shift into his front leg. Again, I realize he is 8 or 9, but the swing a year ago he really got after it and created some good weight shift would result in more ground force, resulting in more power. I like the experimentation, but it doesn't seem there is as much transfer of weight. Also, there seems to be a little bat drag still there and no extension after contact and his back hip appears to be going backwards at contact when it should be moving forward through contact.  Overall, pretty good swing for a little guy and it should only get better if he continues to play. Lastly, a lot of people have different ways of teaching and not that any are wrong, but if he sees a private hitting instructor that doesn't use video, I would have to question how that instructor can see what he is doing wrong when the swing lasts less time than it takes for a pitch to hot the catchers mitt. Ball flight can give you only so much information and can be misleading. Also, this is coaching by results which can only reenforce potential bad habits.  Best of luck to you and your son.

Comment by Richard Lovell 22 hours ago

So Rod,

If the average bat speed in LL is 45mph/velocity 50mph, College is 73mph/velocity 78mph and in MLB is 85mph/velocity 92mph, then I would say no, the bat does not have to be traveling faster than the ball. To address your comment about the bat being moved up, down, or backward, yes, the bat can be moved in a non-optimal direction, but not necessarily based on bat speed. The "deflection" of the bat is caused by lack of mass (mass x speed = power). In other words, a hitter using too light of a bat will have bat deflection. One of the reasons a wood bat is such a great training tool is the weight of the bat reveals swing flaws. A lot of people have the belief that a heavier bat causes swing flaws and a bat that is too heavy for player can, but I am talking a bat that is heavier than some of the ultra-light composites/aluminum bats the player can handle with proper technique.

Launch angle plays as big, if not bigger part in ball travel and distance. Launch angle also overcomes with any lack of exit speed. I am getting a little off subject, but it goes along with bat speed versus ball speed from pitcher.

Comment by BRANDON BULL yesterday
 

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