Which Side Of The Rubber Should A Pitcher Use?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joel Wetherell on September 17, 2012 at 10:32am

Larry, just for clarification, do you mean which end? 

Permalink Reply by Larry Cicchiello on September 17, 2012 at 8:42pm

Yes Joel...first base side or third base side.

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on September 18, 2012 at 9:49pm

Everybody keeps talking about this "angle".  The angle at which the ball comes in to home plate compared to one thrown from the opposite end of the rubber.  But I am the only one to point out that that angle is 1.9...I'll call it 2 degrees.  If this were an ink dot test, it might pass MLB specs.  Put a protractor on the point on home plate with 90deg pointing to the mound and the back edges of the plate aligned with the 45deg marks.  Now extend a line through the 91deg mark and another one through the 89deg mark to the front of the plate.  The distance between these two pitches in the hitting zone is...would you believe...less than 3/4".  So we are discussing the advantage of changing the angle to home plate by 0.7".  What makes Randy Johnson effective is not which side of the rubber he stands on...it is which side he plays for.

Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on September 19, 2012 at 12:36am

Even though I disagree with the angle statement, 3/4" is the difference between a KO, pop up or a line drive. 

For me, the angle is where the ball comes out of the hand, not when it crosses the plate. Although different angles approaching the plate can be the difference between a hitter seeing and recognizing a breaking ball and not swinging at it or seeing and recognizing a breaking ball with a hump in it and hammering it.

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on September 19, 2012 at 7:21am

But the batter sees the ball no matter where it is thrown from.  To say that 3/4" is the difference between a line drive and a pop up is true...on the bat.  You aren't even talking about the same thing.  You assume that the batter is going to swing at a ball thrown from the right side when the pitch was actually thrown from the left.  We are talking about how the angle of the pitch is changed by the pitcher moving to one edge or the other.  To say that it is where it comes out of the hand and not where it crosses the plate is just a release point, not an angle.  How did you do in geometry class?  To have and angle, you must have two lines.  One line is from the release point to the target and the other line is the other release point thrown from the other side of the rubber to the target.  The difference between the two is the angle created which is less than 2 degrees.  You can believe that this makes a big difference and you can waste time teaching kids to move from one side to the other but you can't argue with basic math.  Ask Miguel Cabrerra if he notices which side of the rubber the pitcher is pitching from and does it make it harder to see the ball on one side.  He will say "are you kidding?".  You want an extreme angle?  Stand on third and pitch to me.  What is the difference except I will pull more fouls?  The hitter is not focused on an imaginary pitcher standing in the middle of the rubber.  When the pitcher moves, he moves, yeah just like that.

Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on September 19, 2012 at 1:30pm

Michael, 

To be honest, I don't know how I did in geometry, the last time I had that class was in 1981 as a sophomore in high school. I do remember that I enjoyed the class and the teacher to this day is still a very good friend of mine and I also remember that I made the honor role that year. But grade? I just can't remember. 

Now, getting back to where we were with angles or lines or whatever it is we're talking about. I think if you read back on my posts, I never said I'd teach kids to move around on the rubber, but I did say that I would experiment when throwing on the side to see what side is more beneficial for each pitcher. Every athlete and every pitcher is different and each should experiment to find their comfort zone as a youth, and as you get older and have more experience there is no reason why a guy can't move on the rubber from one at bat to another or for lhh's vs rhh's. If it makes the pitcher feel more comfortable doing it, so be it. And if it makes even one hitter uncomfortable then again, so be it. And since Randy Johnson and I have had the same agent for our entire careers, I will give you what it is Randy said about why he pitched from the left hand side of the mound. And I quote. "Because I felt it gave me a better angle against the hitters and that is why I moved from the center early in my career" Again, I'm not going to argue with an expert that won 300+ games in the big leagues. 

I'll do my best to see if Miguel Cabrera would say, "are you kidding". But give me time, today is waiver wire day for my fantasy teams and I really need a TE and maybe a WR. Looks more like a blockbuster trade than a wire move. 

Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on September 20, 2012 at 3:17pm

I didn't get to find out what Miguel Cabrera thought about different sides of the rubber but I did talk with 3 ex big leaguers that had very successful careers and one said he never paid any attention to where the pitcher stood on the rubber and the other 2 said they always paid attention to it. To me, it would be no different to a pitcher watching where the hitter is standing in the box, where he is holding his hands, is it a closed stance, open stance or straight up. 

It's all a part of the poker hand.

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on September 21, 2012 at 8:21am

That's what I thought.  They see where he is before he pitches so they can pick up the release point but they don't have a problem hitting no matter what side the pitch is coming from.  They are going to struggle against great pitchers and hammer average ones.  So my point on all this is that the focus for pitchers should be: Movement, location, change of velocity, and deception.  Maybe I am over analyzing this to say don't over analyze.  Whenever a question comes up about a little adjustment a pitcher can make to be more successful, I like to look at it from a hitter's point of view.  I have stood in the batter's box enough times to realize that a two degree change in the balls path to the plate is not going to matter.  Like I said, throw it from third which is a 45 degree offset and as long as you have to throw it over the plate, I will hit it.  Unless it is comming at 106mph and then you back it up with a nasty yacker.  Your going to K me with that 100 times out of 100 no matter where you stand.

Permalink Reply by Kip Gross on September 21, 2012 at 1:24pm

Both said they prefer the pitcher to be standing on the left (left for the pitcher) because the angle is less to them as a hitter. And even the guy that said he never looked to see where the pitcher stood said he'd rather face a pitcher that threw the ball as straight down the middle as possible with as little of angle as it could be.

Why is it that almost every hitter has a higher career batting average against the opposite side they are hitting. RHH vs LHP & LHH vs RHP?

And if the degree of angle is no big deal why is it managers platoon a lot of hitters because they don't hit as well against left or right?

Michael, I have one other question for you. If I were to set up 3 pitching machines, 1 set up splitting the pitching rubber. One 2 feet to the right of the edge of the rubber and one 2 feet to the left of the pitching rubber. Are you saying that you would hit the same against all 3 equally? 

Permalink Reply by Mike Greene on September 21, 2012 at 1:29pm

Kip, I knew you would come up with a good question. I was thinking the same, but didn't want to ask.

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on September 23, 2012 at 11:00am

I am glad you asked!  I love Baseball pop quizzes!

Q.  Why do righties hit lefties better and vice-versa?

A.  Fastballs run away from the hitter and breaking balls move in.  That is what makes the change up most effective against opposite side batters; however, the change does not move like a slider, so a pitcher that has a good fastball and breaking ball combo would rather face same handed batters.  There are more right handers in this world  so lefties are more comfortable hitting them and for that matter, so are right handed batters.  That is why left handed pitchers (that don't throw 95+) always have a good change up for all the right handed batters.  I have a question for you.  Why are left handers considered "low ball hitters" and right handers "high ball hitters"?  It is because right handed batters struggle with the pitch breaking down and away and that same pitch comes down and in to a left handed batter and he can hit it more often.  Since there are more right handed pitchers, it appears that lefties are "low ball hitters" because sliders and curves are thrown low.

Q. If the degree of angle is no big deal why is it managers platoon a lot of hitters because they don't hit as well against left or right?

A.  The pretense in this question is false.  You are basing the fact that there are spot hitters and spot pitchers on an assumption that it is because of the angle of the pitch; the release point.  As I explained in answering the first question, It is the movement of the pitch, velocity, location and change of speed that gives hitters fits.  Off speed pitches moving away and fastballs moving in are what determines the need for a pinch hitter.

Q.  If I were to set up 3 pitching machines, 1 set up splitting the pitching rubber. One 2 feet to the right of the edge of the rubber and one 2 feet to the left of the pitching rubber. Are you saying that you would hit the same against all 3 equally?

A.  This is an easy one.  YES!  As long as all three machines were set up to throw strikes.  I would, and all hitters do, swing the bat to make contact where the ball is going, not where it came from.  I even challenged you to pitch from third base and except for pulling more fouls, I could hit the ball.

This reminds me of a drill I developed.  Put a screen about 15 feet from home plate.  Have two people soft toss balls from each side of the screen.  Have a catcher behind the plate call which tosser releases the ball and which one fakes a toss so the hitter has to react to the ball not knowing which side of the screen it is coming from.  This helps reaction time and going with the pitch.  The ball coming from the outside that comes in should be pulled and to the outer corner should get hit up the middle.  The ball coming from the inside to the inside should be pulled and to the outside corner should be hit up the middle or the other way.

 

Permalink Reply by Michael Richards on September 23, 2012 at 11:56am

I have three reasons for choosing a starting point on the rubber. 

Footing is the reason I choose the left side.  This is not so much a problem in pro ball because of the well manicured mound. 

Consistency is important for control.  Another poster pointed this out and I think for younger pitchers it is important to have them find a spot and stick to it. 

Confidence is a huge factor when challenging hitters.  If you feel more confident in a crossfire approach, then use it if you believe it gives an advantage.

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