Bringing in your closer.

Comment by David LeVine on October 26, 2012 at 7:00am

While I do not disagree with your suggestion, I am not sure I totally agree with it either.  It's hard to judge when I am not at the game to see what is truly happening.  Taking out the starting pitcher in the 3rd inning can lower the level of confidence of the starting pitcher.  Sometimes they need to know how to dig down inside and get themselves and their team out of a jam.  They often do not get too many opportunities to do this.  Although it worked out for your team  it also could have had the opposite effect.  He could have given up a grand slam. 

 

One thing I have learned over the years is to listen to the team/assistants with suggestions but then make my decision on what to do.  If my decision works out I am a genius, if not I stink as a manager.  If my decision does not work out and I hear about it, my first question to them is do you know what the outcome would have been if I had done it differently?  They never have a response.  The other decison could have made the situation worse. 

My best advise I give to other managers/coaches is never second guess yourself.  Your decisions are made with the best available information you have at the time.  Sometimes the decisions happen in a split second.  Once you second guess yourself you will start to lose confidence in your decisions and ability to coach.  You never know what the other outcome would have been. 

Comment by Scott Emerich on October 26, 2012 at 8:40am

I have a very different philosphy I have used over the last couple years that has really worked. It is my 2 walk per inning rule.  We have a 13U team and several very solid arms, however, 13 year olds can be very unpredicitable.  As mentioned in the 1st post he was flying along and hit a wall.  Well, I saw that happen, saw the kids started trying to make small adjustments on the mound but the game just started picking up speed and getting to fast.  Not only do the walks make the pitcher frsutrated but ever notice how the defense falls apart?  Understandablely, they lose focus and that is a lot of the errors

That year I finally sat down with the players and told them the new rule.  2 walks in 1 inning and the next pitcher is coming in.  PERIOD.

The pitchers all bought in and really have been outstanding.  Have there been times they are out of sorts?  Yes, but with the quick change, the new pitcher comes in and tempo of the game doesn't slow down.

The pitcher who was struggling will get a quick rest or work on the side and then right back out there to fight another day.  

 

Comment by Curtis Wallace on October 26, 2012 at 9:28am

You have to be at the game and see the whole picture.You have to know the make up of each player. There are pitchers who are poised and will make the adjustment and there are pitcher who will have tears in their eyes  and you know they had enough.I don't agr.ee with the 2 walk idea I think it puts added pressure on the kid that one ball and I'm coming out but if it works for you then again you have the type of kids with the make up for that.You have to be thinking ahead and be prepared for what comes up having many situations in your head with the pitcher in miind and when in each situation.I agree you can't second guess yourself. .

..

Comment by Larry Cicchiello on October 26, 2012 at 9:40am

I'm in total agreement with Kip. In my opinion, the defining moment in a game can very well be in an earlier inning. And to save a "closer" for later...well, that later may never come if they put up a crooked # in the middle innings. There's nothing to close if you're down 6-1 in the later innings. Reminds me of some youth coaches who stagger their lineup. If I'm trailing 3-2 in the last inning with two outs and the tying run at 2B, it makes no sense to me to have my #5 hitter up who is batting .250. And my #6 hitter is on deck who is batting .375. I don't want to lose the game with my best hitter or my best pitcher not either on the hill or in the box. "Whatever gives my team the best chance to win."

In this case, I say bring in the closer because this is a CRUCIAL part of the game right now and I don't know if I'll have a crucial part of the game later.  

Comment by Bill Stanton on October 26, 2012 at 10:45am

I love how Kip handled this.  First, a 12 year old doesn't need to be designated "the closer". Pitch when the team needs you, play SS or LF.. and hit. Help the team win when needed.  This was a great learning experience for all.

At the MLB level, too much money is on the line.  Guys are designated as "the closer" and unfortunately money will dictate that they pitch the 9th.

Comment by Coach Mike on October 26, 2012 at 10:45am

I agree with the thought process of the OP and the move made. Not that my opinion matters; the end result clearly justified it.

I think the issue stems from managers getting too tightly wrapped around preconceived notions such as who is a "closer". Those sorts of things limit thought processes. For the most part, a roster should be regarded as a tool box of assets that are used to give your team the best chance of winning games according to whatever situations present themselves.The critical thinking and problem-solving in the purview of any sort of manager require an open mind. Preconceptions squash creativity.

As to "even at the highest levels", it's a much greater issue with stars' and their agents' assumptions about roles and incentive-laden contracts, greed, head-cases, and prima donnas who are allowed to let their own ideas about how they should be used carry weight. (E.g., "Hey, I only come in in save situations and I only get 3 outs because my star says 'closer' on it and my bonus is tied to number of saves.") "At the highest levels", the game is tainted by individual concerns; a win for the team is not always paramount regardless of what we might hear in post-game interview rhetoric and platitudes. Generally, managers "at the highest levels" are clearly not empowered nor comfortable to make any move they'd like, even if it occurred to them. The money corrupts and that's just a fact of life. 'Baseball' and 'Major League Baseball' are not the same things and the same management strategies don't apply.

As to the pure mission of winning a baseball game, any manager with any clue knows games are about 'the big inning'; avoiding one on defense and making one happen on offense. Managing 'the big inning' situation -- preventing the other guys' and/or enabling yours -- should influence the consideration of any move you have available, without regard for limiting preconceptions such as who someone might describe as 'a closer'.

Comment by Jon Freeman on October 26, 2012 at 10:57am

While I agree with Kip and Larry on the need to "shut down" a potential big inning, and I've put our #1 pitcher on the mound to do just that, I think that Curtis and David have the best take on this. Each tournament, game, inning will bring different situations, and therefore different things need to be addressed. I am a big fan of seeing how my pitchers (and ALL players in the field, at the plate, even on the bench) will react to anything happening, whether it be bad or good, so I like to see if my pitchers can work out of trouble. However, if I've got a kid that's just juiced the bags on walks, and I feel that this is a "crucial" point in the game, I want and need my #1 pitcher on the mound. It may not work, but there is absolutely ZERO point in leaving bullets in the gun for an opportunity that may never be realized when I can shoot them now. It reminds me of taking a marginal called 3rd strike because you thought you'd swing and miss; if you don't swing, you'll never know... Of course the course if you're turning your order over in 1-to-2 innings and putting up crooked numbers every other inning, the point is moot. ;-)

Comment by Jon Freeman on October 26, 2012 at 11:00am

Kip, as far as your question at the end, the managers and coaches at the highest levels probably don't do that because it would involve going against "how we've always done it". Sad, but true.

Comment by Coach Mike on October 26, 2012 at 11:09am

I didn't take the point as being about whether it's best to usually have a short or a long leash; my take was it's about not limiting your options (should you enact one or not) just because someone put a 'closer' label on one of your pitching assets.

Comment by Coach Mike on October 26, 2012 at 11:17am

how we've always done it

While MLB baseball is clearly as steeped in tradition as any pro sport, the "closer" only emerged in the 1990s.

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